Apple has made a ton of money over the years, which is largely thanks to the iPhone. However it also seems that the company could be taking a loss on some of their other products in a bid to try to get customers to get on board its ecosystem, such as the Apple TV and the HomePod smart speaker.

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This is according to John Gruber during his podcast “The Talk Show” in which he claims that Apple is apparently selling the Apple TV at cost, meaning that little to no profit is made with every unit sold. He also claims that the HomePod is actually being sold at a loss despite its heftier price tag compared to the competition.

According to Gruber, “One thing I’ve heard from a reliable little birdie is Apple effectively sells [Apple TV] at cost. Like they really are like $180 a box. And you think, ‘wow, this is amazing, it has an A10 processor, which we know is super fast, and has crazy good graphics.’ I’ve heard the same thing about HomePod too. Like, why is HomePod so much more expensive than these other speakers you can talk to? I have reason to believe Apple actually sells it at a loss. I can’t prove it, I don’t think it’s a big loss.”

It is surprising if this is true, and given that Gruber tends to have pretty good inside information, there is a chance he could be right. However not everyone agrees with Gruber where according to Mark Gurman (via 9to5Mac), he has refuted those claims and suggested that both the Apple TV and HomePod are being sold at profit.

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